tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7985429043801017839.post8013695338586054839..comments2023-10-27T07:50:27.411+01:00Comments on Next Left: Why Turing letter mattersTom Hampsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05917325958130851128noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7985429043801017839.post-2898493649708532872009-09-13T08:36:52.926+01:002009-09-13T08:36:52.926+01:00'One can argue about the correct overall balan...'One can argue about the correct overall balance between pride, sorrow, regret and shame one might think appropriate to the history which has shaped the society which we are - but one can only do so if one rejects the "presentism" idea that none of this can have any ethical force now because it happened in the past.'<br /><br />Quite so. And it would be nice to see a real apology by this prime minister on behalf of this government to the family of Dr David Kelly, whose treatment by the narcissistic, sociopathic Alastair Campbell almost certainly contributed to his death.<br /><br />Indeed it might very well be that apologising for the actions of a government in which one was a major player, of which one is now the leader, could turn out to be even more impressive than apologising decades later later for those of other people.<br /><br />Not that it will happen, of course.Zio Bastonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18066899839752174167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7985429043801017839.post-79686054498545838312009-09-11T17:37:10.020+01:002009-09-11T17:37:10.020+01:00A great many people in Brighton and across the wor...A great many people in Brighton and across the world might have very good reason to be thankful for Alan Turing's work, and also regret his personal suffering.<br /><br />The idea that national leaders or the leaders of businesses, or other institutions, etc can not sensibly offer an apology for issues they were not personally involved in is simply incoherent, at least for anybody who believes in any notion of "nation", "community", "people" or anything like that.<br /><br />Certainly, this "presentism" ('we can't apologise or express regret if we weren't directly involved') seems to me always incompatible with the sense that we can be "proud of our history" or of parts of it, for example, the role of this country in fighting the second world war, the work of William Shakespeare or the England victory in the 1966 World Cup final (for which many of us now have no direct personal responsibility either). <br /><br />One can argue about the correct overall balance between pride, sorrow, regret and shame one might think appropriate to the history which has shaped the society which we are - but one can only do so if one rejects the "presentism" idea that none of this can have any ethical force now because it happened in the past.<br /><br />formerlyipswich says "its called history" is being used here to make the opposite argument, and I don't understand how that stands up.<br /><br />Clearly, I would agree that the way in which we might express either pride, or shame, or a mixture of both, for either our family history and the actions of our direct familial ancestors, or for those of any broader community - such as a nation or other group - is qualitatively different from our relationship from our own direct personal actions, or indeed the actions of a political community of which we are part. It does not mean they can not be meaningful, unless one does indeed believe that there is no such thing as history.<br /><br />And even those who would regard all such concepts as mythical (cosmopolitans or libertarians who do not think that their passport or citizenship involves any social membership) would probably still acknowledge that existing institutions - the British government, the Monarchy, Parliament, Barclays Bank, Everton Football Club, etc - are inheritors not just of their history (good and bad) but indeed of the material consequences of that (eg assets belonging to the state, or the Royal family, or a business; or indeed debts).Sunder Katwalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06671411534003530927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7985429043801017839.post-40242942473304329392009-09-11T15:39:43.992+01:002009-09-11T15:39:43.992+01:00So, just like George Orwell predicted, the Left ar...So, just like George Orwell predicted, the Left are rewriting history. <br /><br />That was the way the Law at the time. <br /><br />It's called history. Christ are you people stupid. When's the apology for the Enclosure Acts or the Highland Clearances, possibly with a chunk of compensation, an illuminated script etc? Or perhaps Burlesconi will compensate me for the rape pillage and murder of the Legions as they ran roughshod over Britannia? Or, perhaps, compy for Dresden to the innocent chldren? Or from Turkey perhaps for the white slavery it operated for centuries? Or the Chinese to the peopled of the Orient for their Imperialistic adventures over centuries? Or Aztec decendents to the other tribes for the human sacrifice? <br /><br />Laughable. <br /><br />Do you really imagine that anyone outside Brighton really cares about this?formerlyipswichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04191315480198975926noreply@blogger.com